Braving the Elements

I can imagine the commercial:

"So what's on the space shuttle cargo manifest, Bill?"

"Oh nothing much - new batteries for the international space station, a solar wind experiment rig and a few thousand pounds of Space2O(TM)!"

"Wow, that's certainly out of this world. Can you imagine its refreshing taste after our flight? AWESOME!"

*dies laughing*
 

LHH: I have come to the conclusion that you are far more witty and clever than I!
 

What's wrong with that company? I checked out the web site and it is very cool! They don't fly the water - duh! They fly the electrolytes and then add them after the water is purified. They also have a cool looking energy drink - Antimatter. I just ordered some, I'll let you know how it tastes. BUT more importantly did you guys even check out the web site? They fly K-12 and university student experiments to space for free and this is how they pay for it. They're doing more for education than Dasani or Red Bull! I bet you guys didn't even look did you? Much easier to just bitch about something ... ha ha Well your actions speak volumes about your "intelligence"

Joe Ridder
 

Joe,

Use some intelligence and knowledge of science and stick to one argument.

Regardless of what they're using the money for this is a scam - they provide absolutely no evdience that "space flown electrolytes" do anything that non-space flow electrolytes do. None, nada, zilch.

They're the proverbial snake oil salesmen. If they have clincial evidence that the 'sapce flown electrolytes' actually provide anything beyond a placebo effect then they should provide the evidence - obvioulsy they don't!

So I will use my intelligence and knowledge of chemistry to shake my head and get water from the tap.

~Aa
 

Hey ~Aa,

I can only guess that your screen name is missing a few letters ...

You still don't get it do you pin head! Name one product you purchase that doesn't have a gimmick? Red Bull gives you wings, Pary like a Rock Star, etc. The only difference with MEI is that their gimmick is real – they really have been to space. Again use your meatball to do a little research instead of trying to impress everybody. They don't claim anywhere that the electrolytes are changed, they just say "spaceflight enriched." OK, you've probably wet your pants by now - go look up what the FDA says about using the word enriched. All it means is that the ingredients have experienced space flight - not that they have been changed by it. In fact enriched means to restore to its original value, not to add or make better.

But more importantly, take off your blinders for a moment and think big. Can you do that little man? These guys are trying to do something good and they are funding it by selling products with a space theme – get it? Space research, space experiments, space products. They tell you on the web site exactly what they plan to do, no hidden agenda, no secrets. All I’m saying is it’s about time somebody like this came along – so I just ordered another case of Space2O in honor of you …

By the way noodle neck, I have a PhD in EE.

Joe Ridder
 

Gee, what an enlightening conversation we're having, you must really be that engineering degree to its maximum at the moment.

Oh by the way, I have a Ph.D. in chemistry. Would you like to get into an 'enlightened' discussion about electrolytes, or simply keep up the name calling? And when did a degree in EE make you an expert on either electrolytes OR space flight OR experiments in space flight?

I don't care what the gimmick is...this is a pointless product that provides absolutely no service to the consumer - and they should state that on their web site. They don't! Usually at the advantage of those who don't know any better who think they're getting something special when in essence they are getting 'spiffed up' salt water.

A salt by they way is a chemical composed of both cations and anions. If that's too technical for you I'll break it down...see how much it can be? I didn't actually hve to call you a name to cast down on your education and perhaps intelligence.

And you can rant all you like, unless your next post is civil and to the point you won't get a response.
 

Oh yes, and I really don't care what they're using the money for! The product is a waste of money (as is most bottled water); and the gimmick is being used to sell...ah well, enough said.

Good intentions (that also pays their salaries) mixed with Bullshit advertising...hmmm...and I'm supposed to be impressed, how?
 

Hey Aa - Or is that A**?

I agree with Joe, you are a turd. Let me ask you a question - have you ever worked for a living, developed a product, built a business? I would guess from you rambling line of crap that you're an academic. By the way, why don't you identify yourself? You can't keep hiding all of your life.

Just so you feel better, my name is Hans Schmidt, PhD ME. You trivialize what MEI is doing - yea, you can call the electrolytes just salts. But the rest of us normal humans call the ones that MEI flies calcium (important), magnesium (important), and potassium (important).
After reading your whining I went to the web site and checked, MEI doesn't make any claims that the electrolytes have changed or are better - only that it has flown to space and back. I personally think that is pretty cool - people pay thousands of dollars to hang stuff on their wall that has flown to space. If you diagree with me then post one of their claims here so everybody can see - other wise shut up and go back to your little ivory tower and try to impress the young kids about how smart you are.
The rest of us will take up the business of pushing humanity forward, building businesses, and creating wealth for thousands of middle class Americans. That probably offends you - too bad. Are you sure you aren't French?

Hans
 

Dang, I was going to comment but I'll just leave it with what Hans said. Very cool.Joe Ridder
 

Seriously, what is with the name calling? I realize that posting pseudo-anonymously lets one get away with a lot in the web, but what's the point?

As Bertrand Russel said "Ad Hominem attacks are the last ditch defense of the losing side".

Also, stick to the points of the arguments. I blog pseudo-anonymously for very good reasons, and anyone who takes the time can probably figure out who I am and the region of the country where I work (IP addresses and all that). It's really not all that hard to 'out' someone. But even if I were a Nobel Laureate (which I'm not) doesn't change the arguments.

Likewise to being an 'academic' versus an industrialist. Again, a search of the site would have proben to anyone that I am indeed an academic...and futher probing would show industrial and consulting experience.

I have several patents, all owned by companies, and almost fifty peer-reviewed papers -some fundamental and some applied - that build up humanity's knowledge base.

But what does any of that have to do with the product/argument at hand?

"That probably offends you - too bad. Are you sure you aren't French?"

What does my nationality have to do with anything? Incidentally, it's mostly northern European (Scandinavian and Germanic). As for French - cheap political shot, and absolutely lame. If I was French I'd hold my head up high - they have added much to culture and enlightenment in this world!

"The rest of us will take up the business of pushing humanity forward"

Uh-huh. By selling a product that has little to no inherent value as a product...and generates wealth for the middle class...sure. The poor and middle class pay a lot of money for a product, when they could get the equivalent for pennies or even fractions of a penny. Those same elements you mentioned happen to also be in tap water.

As for building businesses well...it's well known that companies use all those discoveries made by academics that lay the fundamental building blocks of disciplines, and then individuals like you two sneer at the academics who make the discoveries. How...trollish of you. Oops, name calling, my bad!

And I'll skip over a lesson on basic nutrition and minerals - you don't want to hear from a pointy headed academic anyway.

Stick to the arguments about why this product is worth buying, and what inherent value it has as a product. If you can't do that then I kindly ask you to leave.

~Aa
 

Aha - I knew it. It's not the product that bothers you - you just don't like the fact that somebody will be making money on it. No wonder you won't identify yourself - chicken!

What is the value of the product? It is a purified water with calcium, magnesium, and potassium added to it. Something that a lot of bottled waters lack. It sells for the same price as other bottled waters. So what is your beef? You can buy Dasani for $1 a bottle or you can buy Space2O for $1 a bottle. At least with Space2O they are giving something back to the education community. Ditto on their energy drink Antimatter - Red Bull is $1.99 a can and so is Antimatter. So what's your problem? They aren't ripping anybody off, they are charging exactly what similar products are charging. Do you think that Coke isn't making money with their products. Do you think Red Bull isn't making money? Again, what's your real problem? Why are you picking on MEI just because they are making a space product but not complaining about all of the other products on the market? If they give me a quality product that is as good as the other products on the shelf, it costs the same, but it has been to space and I know that they will be putting their profits back in to space research and education - why not buy theirs?

I think your true colors are showing. Pride is a tough pill to swallow and it takes a big man to do it. Just admit you picked the wrong tree to pee on and let this go. These guys are doing a good thing for the country and education in general. They deserve more than you petty, sniveling, complaints.

Hans
 

Hans,

I doubt if A** will respond - you've done a good job of calling him out. I heard that Walgreen's just signed an agreement with MEI and will be carrying the products. I think the initial roll out will be Albuquerque.

Hey A** - you really should be ashamed of your response. It is a pissy, immature reaction guided by a lack of knowledge. Hans is right. If the products cost the same, are just as good (I hear that antimatter is one of the best tasting energy drinks), have physically been to space, and the profits go to fund educational projects, why in the world would you get your panties all crumbled up? This is good stuff. I'll wait for your apology but I won't hold my breath.

Joe Ridder (notice, no shame in identifying myself)
 

In all honesty, it's the product that bothers me - people forking over money for a product that has no benefits that tap water (or tap water that has been filtered) can't offer. I think bottled water in general is a waste of money also - unless one is traveling in an area where one shouldn't drink the local water.

As for the contents of bottled water. Just to be annoying I'll pick Evian water, and this is printed right on the bottle:

Calcium 78 ppm (parts per million)
Magnesium 24 ppm
Potassium...none listed actually.
Plus a few other things.

Tap water:
Calcium 66 ppm
Magnesium 24 ppm
Sodium 18 ppm
Again, no potassium listed though that doesn't necessarily mean trace amounts aren't present.

I couldn't find the amounts of the minerals listed on the Space2o website for comparison.

And if you really want to get vitamins and minerals in amounts that are useful, and forms that will absorb readily in the human body, one should simply eats a balanced diet with lots of fruits and vegetables. Again, I dont know what forms the elecrolytes were in before they were put in the water...but only certain forms absorb readily, the rest just passes on through.

Dasani also makes the claim "Enhanced with minerals for better taste". I think it just means they weren't going to go to the expense to get the minerals out in the first place.

I do think you had a point that I may have read too much into the site and the 'space flown electrolytes', as if this was something great from a nutritional or health point of view. It clearly doesn't say this. But it also doesn't have a clear explanation, beyond a 'it's been in space' argument, for why anyone would care that these electrolytes are in the water. Hans has made a big deal about the fact that they are there...but really, these minerals are present (sans potassium) in most water sources, even most bottled waters. So I do apologize for that. But won't for thinking this product is a waste of money. But it is admirable that MEI spends part of the money on funding science experiments...but again, most companies spend dollars promoting their products and/or companies and/or doing charitable work. They just happen to be doing something that has a very high 'cool' factor.

At this point I think it's time to lay this particular topic to rest, and agree to disagree.

I leave one last 'snark' below, and will read any comments you leave but won't respond.

Snark Alert:
Yes, well once again, thanks for the A**, real civil and adult of you. And golly gee whiz, you're both sooooooo mature and braaaaave to put your 'real names' on the comments on an A-list...er, B-list...wait, D-list blog. So if I do a google, facebook or myspace search which ones are you? And no email addresses, or even regions in which you live. Wow! Spare me the anonymous arguments, they're a joke.

Au Revoir!
 

Very Good, sorry if the A** reference bothered you - I didn't think Ape would be offensive (what were you thinking?). Ok, I feel like my job is done. There is so much junk science and uninformed opinion out there that it drives me nuts. In particular, your automatic assumption that these guys are snake oil salesmen and just out to make a buck offended me and a large cadre of my friends (who have put your site on the alert list - maybe bump you up to a c). I respect the fact that you admitted you may have jumped the gun a little and can support your general opinion about bottled water.
I only ask that you and your readers do some research before defaming somebody or product. The most dangerous thing to democracy is loud, aggressive, uninformed opinion.
See you around, and yes, I do know who you are. Just wanted to see if you would print it.

Hans (is that my real name?) - the PhD is real though
 

Wow, Hans and the Joe, you guys really make yourselves look foolish. Since Pharyngula linked to you, thousands of people like me are laughing at you, cheering on Aa, and just generally considering you to be idiots.
 

Wow, Joe/Hans isn't the same sock puppet and probably the sole owner/founder/employee of this company, I'll eat my left nut. And since identity is so important to him, I'll give my full name and go one further...

my name is John Smith, and I live in Springfield :-)
 

Dude, you're screwing with their commissions.
 

(who have put your site on the alert list - maybe bump you up to a c).

alert list????

this I gotta see.

sounds like a less than veiled threat with no substance, much like the rest of the poster's argument to me.

seriously, what is this "alert list"?

should we notify homeland security?
 

They also have a cool looking energy drink - Antimatter.

cool looking?

does it at least have some sugar and caffeine in it, so it's not as completely worthless as the spaceified saltwater?

I mean, since you compared it to red bull, for example, that most people drink not because it "looks cool" but because it has sugar and drugs in it.
 

Your trolls are pretty obviously defensive company insiders. Nobody else would give enough of a shit.
 

Hey Hans and Joe you pinhead turds I ain't no scientist but I like the way you talk real dumb (even though you lost the argument).
I heard that there Antimatter don't taste none too good neither, though I ain't never tried it myself.
Hoo boy! Catch me paying over the odds for that there space water. I'm dumb, but I ain't that dumb.
 

AA, are you perhaps a Vulcanologist, or do you live in Hawaii?

For the oter posters who are so obviously brilliant, AA is a form of Lava. It's the more fluid variety, as opposed to pahoehoe, which is the 'pillowy' sort.


On the matter of the water, has it ever been verified that:
1. exposure to microgravity makes ANY difference to the salts?
2. The salts in question have ACTUALLY been in a rocket which has made it to at least 80km above sea level?
 

I think it should be re-named Brawndo.

After all, "It's got electrolytes"!
 

Last time I heard of a cost for taking things to space it was about $10,000 per pound. Let's say they were able to get 5 kg of salts in that small missile.

The space salts used in the water were the exclusive salts used in their water(that's their claim in the quoted part in the initial post.) Most salt concentrations (in tapwater and Evian, listed in a comment here) run about 0.100 gm./liter. So that would mean that there were enough salts for about 50,000 liters of Space2-O. That isn't much. But how much did it cost for taking the salts into space? Well, 5kg is about 11 lbs., at $10,000/lb. that's a total of $110,000 for a cost of electrolytes alone being $2.2/liter.

At what price are they selling it? About $3/liter.

"The result is a one-of-a-kind purified H2O with exclusive spaceflown electrolytes that provide Space2O™ with an out-of-this world, refreshing taste."

That's quite a claim...an out-of-this world, refreshing taste. What mechanism would account for an otherworldly taste? How does "out-of-this world" taste?

My guess would be it tastes like expensive water, and by that I mean there would be no difference compared to earth-based bottled water.

[Be sure to find and watch the episode of Penn & Teller's Bullsh!t about bottled water. People are suckers for claims of exclusivity.]

Also, their claim that the salts were exposed to microgravity is not exclusive. Since any object in free fall is "exposed to microgravity" they could just as easily taken the salts up in a plane and dropped them to earth. Voila! Salts exposed to microgravity. Heck, they could've tossed them from the top of their bottling facility to meet the microgravity requirement.
 

Hey Hans and Joe! Ya think I could interest you in my new business? I have tons of the raw ingredient for Space Mud! This material comes dry for easy transport (I call it "dirt"), and it's been hurtling through space for BILLIONS OF YEARS! Yeah boy, we're talking hundreds of thousands of miles an hour through space! Around the sun! With almost no gravity! Woot!

Mix it with water (ooh, you could use Space2O!) and apply it to your entire body. You'll be amazed at how much more natural you'll feel. Space Mud can be worn under your clothing, or just wear it instead of clothing! Space Mud will not harm you (or your children), and it is almost non-toxic (check with local EPA for details). Space Mud has a PhD in Awesomeness. Space Mud had an audience with the Pope. Space Mud knows where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. Space Mud requires the fatty part of the sacrifice be saved for Him! Space Mud loves big boobies. Space Mud "gets" quantum mechanics. Space Mud found nothing wrong with Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction. Space Mud once, when it was in band camp, like got all grossed out when.....
 

This lengthening argument is, in all honesty, one of the stupidest wastes of intellectual energy I have encountered on the web.
 

Funny stuff - I guess all of the little pinheads came out to play.

I don't know about the space stuff but I noticed that all of the folks who railed against Joe and Hans have never tried any.

As for me - I'm going to order some and see if I like it or not.

I think overall I'm laughing at all of Aa's students that wrote in. Does that get them extra credit?
 

Hey - I went and checked out Brawndo, as suggested by President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho. What a croc BUT I noticed nobody complaining about that. Hmmm I wonder if these comments were possibly organized to support Aa. No - that would be wrong.

I personally think the space angle is cool. I'll try it.

Fred Sager
 

Hey cool, all of the little techno nurds came out to play. I wish I was affiliated with those guys at microgravity, I think they will do well.

But more importantly where did all of you little girls come from? I look at the timing of the messages, pretty suspicious.

Oh well, I'm Hans and I live in San Diego. You guys take a couple of deep breaths and unfold your panties - you'll be ok.
 

Willy - for what it's worth. The Space2O is $36 a case and the Antimatter is $45 a case, free delivery.
 

The funniest part about the supporters of this sham is that they refuse to recognize it as a sham. I particulary like the guy with the PhD in engineering. So what? You are talking about your opinion on a marketing ploy. What does a PhD have to do with your willingness to sound like a 16 year old trying to convince the other kids that Reeboks are as good as Nike's. Yikes that was banal.
You guys REALLY don't mind that there is NO WAY TO TELL IF THE ELECTROLYTES HAVE EVER BEEN TO SPACE?
Since we know there is NO difference, even if they HAD launched a gram or two of the stuff into orbit, there is no way to tell, hence no efficacy in the claims.
Go ahead - order some to be "cool". Smoke dope and snort cocaine while your at it. Just as well be consistent with your mentality.
The stupid - it hurts.
 

For the record, most of Aa's students don't know this site exists and thus don't provide support for it in any way, shape or form.

Although the reinforcements are fun,the "alert list" in one of Hans's previous posts made me curious so I simply asked one or two better known bloggers about it. They then posted it on their sites...et voila (that's French, by the way).
 

"It's got what plants crave!"

I have to say, it's been a long time since I've seen such an unprofessional response from a company to a negative review of a product.

Hans PhD and Joe Ridder, please try and recognize how horribly unprofessional your behavior here has been. If you want your company to be successful, you must develop better on-line publicity skills. I suggest you read up on Teresa Hayden's posts on the subject at http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight.

By attacking Aa as you have here, you are spreading awareness of this post far beyond its original audience, and that is not to your benefit.

All the best,
James Fallon Kendall (BA Computer Science)
 

We were recently informed about this series of postings by James Kendall (see the email below). First we would like to say that we are not affiliated in any way with Joe or Hans and neither is an employee of Microgravity Enterprises, Inc.

We also don’t want to further this debate by continuing the discussion – this is not an appropriate forum for that. We simply offer up our web site and contact information for anybody that would like to discuss this. Our goal is to be completely honest and up front about our plans.

Please feel free to contact us about any of these issues and we’ll be happy to discuss them with you. Contact information is on the web site. Thanks

Microgravity Enterprises, Inc


http://braving-the-elements.blogspot.com/2007/08/new-scientific-development-in-nutrition.html

I thought you'd appreciate knowing about the above post and the
resulting thread in which two (possibly just one) individual is
engaging in very unprofessional behavior presumably in support of you
company.

Either someone is trying to make your comany look bad through
purposefully idiotic trolling, or you need to ensure your employees
are aware of how harmful such actions can be to a company's
reputation.

-James Kendall
 

Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster Batman! I don't have anything important to say. My, you're popular all of a sudden. Too bad it's a bunch of morons.

Seriously, if people want to waste their money on that stuff they should just send it to me! :)